tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post1446561600857069635..comments2010-11-22T22:19:54.049-06:00Comments on R(EVOLVING) Thoughts: UMC: A Vision of Intentional Renewal StrategyPastor Justinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08467093466716836308noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post-18312217553052817722010-03-05T11:06:22.519-06:002010-03-05T11:06:22.519-06:00Jerad-
I am hoping that as the 5 focus have been ...Jerad-<br /><br />I am hoping that as the 5 focus have been dealt with in a bit more detail that you have seen how essentially clergy would have to make tough decisions. Not life or death, but perhaps pay for cable tv or have a little better food, and depending on health occurances it could get tough. Leading to empathy.<br /><br />However, I still want to have a conversation with you over empathy vs. sympathy.....I think the difference is key and want to flesh it out with you sometime.Pastor Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08467093466716836308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post-47402605783941634252010-03-04T15:38:27.107-06:002010-03-04T15:38:27.107-06:00Justin, good point on #1.
I didn't entirely s...Justin, good point on #1.<br /><br />I didn't entirely see how #2 was fleshed-out, but I do believe that empathy (feeling the emotions of another) is more effective than sympathy (knowing how another must be feeling) in developing a relational ministry.<br /><br />God bless your trip to Durham!Jeradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post-46028930688860679592010-03-02T17:32:01.511-06:002010-03-02T17:32:01.511-06:00Jerad-
In response to your first comment. The de...Jerad-<br /><br />In response to your first comment. The debt-free from seminary is a movement to try and say that we as a church feel that your theological training is going to help us as a whole body to be better.<br /><br />I understand what you are saying about incarnational ministry, but I think the argument may be flawed.<br /><br />(1) Poor/Poverty isn't about debt. In fact there are many who are poor and impoverished that have absolutely no debt and it is about just basic survival. (At one point in my life this was where we were as a family and it wasn't related to debt)<br /><br />(2) I am not sure that one has to be in the exact situation to be able to be incarnational. (Now don't mistake what I am saying...this will be fleshed out tomorrow.....the debt-free isn't about having more money, it is about being able to use the money to help others...allowing some incarnational ministry to occur...which I believe is about being in the flesh (relationship) with people. (You have inspired another post by me that will come after I get back from our campus ministry trip to Durham in mid-March)Pastor Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08467093466716836308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post-2537693847789799862010-03-02T17:24:56.767-06:002010-03-02T17:24:56.767-06:00Ben-
I think you are right. My Focus #1 on Theol...Ben-<br /><br />I think you are right. My Focus #1 on Theologically trained clergy was a move to try and get some of that.<br /><br />These are just beginnings of thoughts in my mind and definitely not fleshed out.<br /><br />I appreciate your reflections.Pastor Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08467093466716836308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post-74452765780177300292010-03-02T16:19:57.627-06:002010-03-02T16:19:57.627-06:00OK, so this piece will likely belong under #3 but ...OK, so this piece will likely belong under #3 but because I'm not good at regular reading, I may not check on tomorrow. Let me expand my comment on how clergy support themselves by directing you to the comments section on this post last* March from a dude in Oklahoma, reflecting on the lopsided candidates:appointments ratio.<br /><br />http://aarontiger.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/too-many-um-pastors-a-good-problem-to-have/Jeradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post-59578938818967417022010-03-02T16:07:55.887-06:002010-03-02T16:07:55.887-06:00Here's the thing about graduating debt-free fr...Here's the thing about graduating debt-free from seminary:<br /><br />Indebtedness makes possible incarnational ministry.<br /><br />If you are called to ministry with the poor (a call which Jesus seemed to think fit most of His disciples), then will you not be able to be more Christlike when you understand first-hand how ketchup sandwiches make sense or how frustrating it is to choose between paying the mortgage and paying for your child's dental visit?<br /><br />Conversely, to what degree is relative affluence an impediment to incarnational, relational ministry with the poor? More than "zero," I think.Jeradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244166128997441003.post-63727173010025093772010-02-28T09:07:58.646-06:002010-02-28T09:07:58.646-06:00Hey Justin, I gave a lot of thought to this upon r...Hey Justin, I gave a lot of thought to this upon reading it on Friday. Your post has stood open in my web browser since then. I think your proposal is interesting, but it would require a great deal of risk taking on behalf of denominational leadership, and at this point I would question whether the end of a venture as you have outlined would result in renewal.<br /><br />The missing components in every discussion of renewal I have seen thus far has consisted of a lack of a robust doctrinal formulation, and the lack of a well developed eschatology. Most of the stress is placed on form, which, granted, is important. It is my current impression that most UMC emphasis on church planting (in my mind, the key to renewal) stresses the need for a marketing strategy and a business plan, rather than instilling in those called to planting a theology that will infiltrate the forms, methodologies, and practices that lead to the building of a body of people called Christian (and, if you like, you can add the tag, "Methodist").<br /><br />I commend your efforts here, and hope you inspire others to think along the same lines. I don't think the fate of every appointment is administration, and even if clergy are appointed to communities, I think they should be moving a step beyond networking and lay down the requisite discipline to be a church. That will lead to the renewal, hopefully, of both that community and the church at large.HeresyWatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03661520852704176297noreply@blogger.com